|
Post by bentpaperclip on Jan 27, 2017 13:39:03 GMT
Did any of those treks down memory lane give any insight on how you want to handle shields?
Dack, I don't think a higher base really makes much of a difference - given that this game doesn't use xp it doesn't take much for a dedicated player to raise low/mid level skills very quickly. I do like the idea for making Shields count you as "encumbered" but I'm not sure how much that would really affect play. If PCs are traveling, they probably already have a fifty (or more) pound pack so a shield really wouldn't make a difference at that point.
|
|
|
Post by logan9a on Jan 27, 2017 16:29:27 GMT
I do like the idea for making Shields count you as "encumbered" but I'm not sure how much that would really affect play. If PCs are traveling, they probably already have a fifty (or more) pound pack so a shield really wouldn't make a difference at that point. True - and 'rule 1'.
|
|
Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
|
Post by Scott on Jan 30, 2017 22:58:13 GMT
Dack, I don't think a higher base really makes much of a difference - given that this game doesn't use xp it doesn't take much for a dedicated player to raise low/mid level skills very quickly. I do like the idea for making Shields count you as "encumbered" but I'm not sure how much that would really affect play. If PCs are traveling, they probably already have a fifty (or more) pound pack so a shield really wouldn't make a difference at that point. I suppose if they are not going to be realistically OP, then they don't really need to be realistically penalized. Wouldn't you just write it on the card?
|
|
|
Post by logan9a on Jan 31, 2017 3:05:06 GMT
Huh?
|
|
|
Post by logan9a on Feb 21, 2017 18:50:09 GMT
What about this instead?
In this game system, shields tend to suck.
What if something like buckler 0, knight +10 block, Wall +20 to block but these break the rule and have their modifiers after the negatives are imposed?
Note that means if you had a 'medium' or 'large' shield you would get to roll as many defenses as there were attacks.
Example: Barbarian Joe has a sword parry of 80% and five people attacking him. His defenses would be: 80%, 50%, 20%, done (if you have a zero or less in the skill after modifications, you don't get to roll).
Example 2: Barbarian Joe has bought a shield and worked his shield parry up to 80%. It is a 'wall' shield because he likes it. His defenses would be 80+20=100, 50+20=70, 20+20=40, 20, 20. [IE: 100, 70, 40, 20, 20.] This would be a big benefit for a big shield. Note that in real life I've never met *anyone* who liked carrying around a shield and one the size of a door (and heavy) would be doubly so. The GM will mess with you for carrying a normal (+10) shield but absolutely fuck with you for a wall shield. You really can't 'wear them on your back' like you can a regular shield. But - if you have porters or are on defense near a friendly armory and such these would be great shields.
What do people think of this idea for shields?
|
|
Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
|
Post by Scott on Mar 4, 2017 21:55:39 GMT
There seems to be conflicting desires on armor and shields.
There seems to be no disagreement that in real life armor and shields are "OP" to anyone who would theoretically engage in combat to the death on a regular basis. (OP/Overpowered here meaning much more likely to win a fight or at least not die.) So a game looking for realism or verisimilitude should make armor/shields highly desirable via game mechanics.
The counterargument protests that hauling around armor and/or shield 24/7 is a YUGE pain in the ass though, so realistically, no one does it; therefore, we should make them crappy via game mechanics to reflect that no one does this and make them less desirable to the PCs.
The thing is, I don't intend to roleplay a stay at home dad, or a sous chef, or a secretary. I'm going to roleplay someone who is expecting to engage in combat to the death on a regular basis. Even if that would be rare for them at the start, they should very soon have every reason to expect it as it keeps coming up regularly as the game progresses. So they should have very valid in-character reasoning to take extraordinary steps to make themselves much more likely to win a fight or at least not die, even if it is a YUGE pain in the ass.
If I were shield tsar, I would have the base skill at 40. Then I would say you could parry/block with a buckler. Then with a real shield (anything larger than a buckler, because screw bucklers) you can also attack for 1d6 damage using the club skill, block incoming arrows, get +1 DR that stacks with your armor, and let you defend one extra time.
Example time:
Ivan has a kite shield and 80 shield block skill. With his 1 DR armor, he takes 2 less damage from attacks. He can potentially block up to 4 incoming melee and/or ranged attacks if he limits his actions to attacking with the shield and/or his mainhand weapon. His chances are 1st attack(full): 80%/2nd attack(full): 80%/3rd attack(half/-30): 50%/4th attack(quarter/-60): 20%/5th attack: ouch.
Hauling around a regular shield is still a pain in the ass, but will not normally be penalized outside of play immediately cards. If you pull the Overencumbered card, you automatically count as overencumbered.
As per the IRL observation that weapon and shield usually beats just weapon, this should give a distinct advantage to using shield block/parry over weapon parrying in game without being over the top.
|
|
|
Post by logan9a on Mar 4, 2017 22:11:24 GMT
Thought I'd put a post on this but apparently it fell off.
To summarize everything you put up there Scott -
A shield gives one extra block and +1 armor?
|
|
Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
|
Post by Scott on Mar 4, 2017 23:19:26 GMT
Thought I'd put a post on this but apparently it fell off. To summarize everything you put up there Scott - A shield gives one extra block and +1 armor? Yes. Ability to block ranged attacks is probably also pertinent in the summary version. Is this what we're going with then? Shields = 1 extra block, +1 armor, and can block ranged?
|
|
|
Post by logan9a on Mar 4, 2017 23:22:09 GMT
It's simple - which is good. Anyone else want to give their ideas on shields?
|
|
|
Post by bentpaperclip on Mar 6, 2017 11:50:19 GMT
I think getting an extra parry and the ability to parry missiles is good enough. Maybe a bonus to Dodge checks against some area attacks. I'm not sure the +1 Armor is needed (or makes any sense from a "what is a shield actually doing for me" point of view).
Shields help you avoid attacks; they don't help you soak them.
|
|
|
Post by logan9a on Mar 6, 2017 16:30:26 GMT
I think getting an extra parry and the ability to parry missiles is good enough. Maybe a bonus to Dodge checks against some area attacks. I'm not sure the +1 Armor is needed (or makes any sense from a "what is a shield actually doing for me" point of view). Shields help you avoid attacks; they don't help you soak them. Makes sense - so for any shields of the 'round', 'kite' or larger variety, pretty much you get an extra parry. We've still got to work out (on the other thread) how to do dodge vs explosives as that goes for lots of different stuff.
|
|
|
Post by logan9a on Mar 11, 2017 19:57:35 GMT
And the write up - is it correct?
Shield (knight or wall only, fuck buckler)
If it's a wall shield (or you are 'turtling') the GM may rule you can parry small missile attacks as well.
Regardless, the effect is you get an extra parry at full.
Example:
Frank has a sword and is using sword parry skill of 80%. Hence, multiple parries would go: 80%, 50%, 20%, fucked. Bob has a shield and is using shield parry skill of 80%. Hence, multiple parries would go: 80%, 80%, 50%, 20%, fucked.
|
|
matchstickman
Agent
Messiah: Will rise again
Creator of and most frequent player of the Heroic Cthulhu Drinking Game
Posts: 2,939
|
Post by matchstickman on Mar 11, 2017 20:12:04 GMT
Why would you ever reach the fucked state if you can "fraction" it? half-quarter-eighth-sixteenth?
|
|
|
Post by logan9a on Mar 11, 2017 20:35:08 GMT
Why would you ever reach the fucked state if you can "fraction" it? half-quarter-eighth-sixteenth? I don't see any value in taking it down past a quarter for anything. Plus, the difference between an 8th and a 16th is: (Pulls out calculator on cell phone) If 75% skill 9 4 (and change) So really only a 5% difference between the two - see what I mean? Plus, I don't want any more complicated of math than 'divide by two twice'. Disclaimer: If the PC's are in the modern world and start a business they expect to make money as opposed to being a place for them to spend extra treasure they get to make a fucking business plan which is much more complicated. The lesson here? Murdering other people and taking their shit may cost you sanity but it saves you from going crazy trying to make a business plan. Probably a net win.
|
|