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Post by logan9a on Jan 24, 2017 17:17:32 GMT
By shields, I'm not talking about small 'punch shields' or 'bucklers', those are pretty much "I want to parry with something different."
I'm talking about the 'set it on the ground and it covers your balls' type of shields.
In real life (not against guns) these things are damned hard to get around. Contrary to popular thought by those who haven't had someone swinging a rattan club at you laughing you do need to actively move the shield around.
I'm trying to figure out how to easily handle shields. They are fairly OP in real life. If there is one guy with just a sword and another with a sword and shield, it is obvious who will win unless there is an actual large disparity in their skills.
The problem with a shield is it is a huge pain in the ass. Lots of people (who haven't ever actually used a shield) have some grand belief they can put it on their back and it's 'out of the way and forgotten about and ready to come out at a moment's notice' - all BS. I would hazard to say that anyone forced to carry a shield *never* forgets they have a fucking heavy assed shield and putting it on their back means that it constantly catches on shit. You end up lugging it around in your hand until you set it down 'by accident' (or in disgust) when there is no fighting.
I'd like to have something that helps bring that home as well.
Does anyone have any ideas?
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Post by bentpaperclip on Jan 24, 2017 18:34:49 GMT
Shields give a Parry bonus equal to the penalty they apply to mobility skill rolls while wearing them?
i.e. Shield: +20% Parry, -20% Lots of skills that are affected because it's heavy and cumbersome.
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Post by logan9a on Jan 24, 2017 19:52:02 GMT
Interesting.
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Post by bentpaperclip on Jan 24, 2017 20:32:20 GMT
Aiming for simple and consistent. (Clearly, shields would give a penalty to something like, Swords, but Jumping? Climb? Run? I'd think so.)
I, for one, am going to find the world that has "hard light" shields that are just a Timex that projects a dome. Suck it - negative modifiers.
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Post by logan9a on Jan 24, 2017 20:36:22 GMT
That would totally be the right way to do it.
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Post by logan9a on Jan 24, 2017 22:06:06 GMT
Shields give a Parry bonus equal to the penalty they apply to mobility skill rolls while wearing them? i.e. Shield: +20% Parry, -20% Lots of skills that are affected because it's heavy and cumbersome. The only problem I can see with this is it violates 'rule 1'.
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Post by bentpaperclip on Jan 25, 2017 12:17:29 GMT
It does. But you are asking how to penalize a player who is wearing a shield. I have to assume they are wearing over time; hence, the drawback is over time (as is the bonus).
It wouldn't make sense to have a one time drawback (pick up shield, lose a HP). And HC doesn't have much in the way of "resources" for players to spend to simulate the added burden of a shield (endurance points or some such).
The way I see it, PCs have 4 resources: HP, MP, POZ, Cards. Unless you are looking to have shields cost HP, MP, POZ, or burn a card to use - I don't see how we can do an up front penalty.
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Post by logan9a on Jan 25, 2017 15:31:53 GMT
Hum.
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Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
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Post by Scott on Jan 25, 2017 23:22:25 GMT
Having run this game with shields in play, the in-game advantage we are talking about here is a higher base (40) block/parry skill than a weapon and the ability to roll block vs arrows. Clearly they are not as OP in game as IRL.
It didn't really feel OP until a PC got Club over 100 and started attacking with both club and shield at half (they use the same skill to attack). Even then, they still did less damage than double sword guy, because there is no Martial Arts: Shield.
If you insist there needs to be a penalty though, I would say count them as armored when rolling con/endurance against the environment (as in the other thread) and/or count them as automatically overencumbered when the "Overencumbered" play immediately card comes up.
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Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
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Post by Scott on Jan 25, 2017 23:49:41 GMT
So Club & Shield guy spent 120 points for attack and block at 100, then probably also spent 100 points on fast draw club and 100 points on martial arts club. So he spent 320 total and can't fast draw the shield, and does d8+d4+bonus on the club and d6+bonus on the shield if he makes all the rolls.
Double Sword guy spent 85 to raise sword to 100, 90 to raise sword parry to 100, 100 on on fast draw sword, and 100 on martial arts sword. So he spent 375 total and can't parry ranged attacks, but does d8+d4+bonus twice if he makes all the rolls.
Also the swords do full lethal damage, but the club/shield does part stun. Either way can be good or bad situationally.
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Post by Fantômas on Jan 26, 2017 0:27:22 GMT
What about ballistic shields? Give +2 to armour (unless person shooting is 'behind' you? I've not looked into it, so no idea how effective ballist shields are in real life against stuff.
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Post by logan9a on Jan 26, 2017 0:44:39 GMT
While using your shield to bash someone is an actual tactic, it's kind of the secondary purpose - like blocking.
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Post by logan9a on Jan 26, 2017 0:48:02 GMT
What about ballistic shields? Give +2 to armour (unless person shooting is 'behind' you? I've not looked into it, so no idea how effective ballist shields are in real life against stuff. I don't know much about them. Looking it up, it seems to be a swat style shield. Thinking that it would just work 'as per regular shield but also works against guns'. If we can figure out how normal shields work...
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Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
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Post by Scott on Jan 26, 2017 22:06:37 GMT
If we can figure out how normal shields work... Here's an email convo from back in the day:
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Post by logan9a on Jan 26, 2017 23:22:26 GMT
Damn I sent a lot of e-mails!
But yes, I'd allow people to parry arrows with a big shield like a kite. With a punch shield, you're not going to have time at something traveling that fast.
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