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Post by logan9a on Feb 3, 2017 21:49:37 GMT
I'd rather have it *all* X x learning = stat points.
Makes 'learning' more important.
That would also give a possible 'concept' character of 'fuck it, I just want an assload of starting skills'.
Pondering aloud
200xlearning = 2000 to 4000 points 250xlearning = 2500 to 5000 points
hum...
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matchstickman
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Post by matchstickman on Feb 4, 2017 1:03:39 GMT
Why do you want to make Learning more important at the beginning? Why are Essence and Willpower not as important as Learning at the beginning? If choose to start with a low Learning, what benefits am I getting with my stat points buys over a PC who starts with a high Learning?
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Post by logan9a on Feb 4, 2017 2:35:45 GMT
Why do you want to make Learning more important at the beginning? To make it a good stat to take. Why are Essence and Willpower not as important as Learning at the beginning? Willpower is HP. I'd say it is important. ESS = MP. It doesn't have to be vital at the beginning. Not all stats need to be important at the beginning. If choose to start with a low Learning, what benefits am I getting with my stat points buys over a PC who starts with a high Learning? More HP, more starting Sanity and more magic points. Looking at it as 'what is useful from the get go', I'd say that Essence/magic points are probably on the low end.
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Post by logan9a on Feb 4, 2017 3:01:20 GMT
Note that also some stats might have other benefits later.
Clearly all of the players will want to get all three of their stats maxed at 20 and as much sanity as they can get.
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Post by logan9a on Feb 4, 2017 12:01:50 GMT
Though it would be ideal if all of the stats were perfectly balanced against each other and all just as useful - I don't think that's going to happen. Ever.
So I'm not too worried about making a huge effort toward it.
I suppose the question the players would be asking themselves is 'how many skill points is a HP worth'. Or five more sanity.
Because yes, sanity is always important.
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matchstickman
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Post by matchstickman on Feb 4, 2017 13:41:11 GMT
Why do you want to make Learning more important at the beginning? To make it a good stat to take. It's not a good stat, it's the best stat. From what you have said the only way to build a character is put as many points in Learning and Sanity as you can and nothing in Essence and Willpower. There's no reason to put points into those last 2 attributes at character gen that you can't get by raising them during play.
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matchstickman
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Post by matchstickman on Feb 4, 2017 13:48:56 GMT
Expounding. Why do you want to make Learning more important at the beginning? To make it a good stat to take. It's not a good stat, it's the best stat. It does everything. It gives you more skill points at character gen, it protects against loss at death and it gives more points when you learn skills, no other stat does anything remotely close to that. Why not spread things out amongst the other stats? e.g. Why not make Willpower the not-lose-points stat? Does it not make sense that the more resilient you are the more of yourself you retain after death? Even if there's a drawback to having a high Learning (e.g. like rolling under Intx5 was the not-go-crazy skill), there's not one at character generation, if you gain more skill points and lose nothing by putting everything into it then that's how characters will be made.
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Post by logan9a on Feb 4, 2017 14:36:46 GMT
Expounding. To make it a good stat to take. It's not a good stat, it's the best stat. It does everything. It gives you more skill points at character gen, it protects against loss at death and it gives more points when you learn skills, no other stat does anything remotely close to that. Why not spread things out amongst the other stats? e.g. Why not make Willpower the not-lose-points stat? Does it not make sense that the more resilient you are the more of yourself you retain after death? If we did link the skill loss to willpower, would learning still be the 'mac daddy' stat? Even if there's a drawback to having a high Learning (e.g. like rolling under Intx5 was the not-go-crazy skill), there's not one at character generation, if you gain more skill points and lose nothing by putting everything into it then that's how characters will be made. I'm thinking the real question we have might be falling between your and Travis' answers. I'm wondering what the amount of stat points to be gained by putting points into Learning should be. In other words, if everyone got X amount of skill points normally then X more per point of Learning, how much should that be? I really don't care that much about ESS (it's your MP and magic resistance - it's enough but you might not need it right away, granted) and sanity seems reasonable enough as is. Is it cool to start with 50 sanity? Possibly but it also depends into what sort of urine soaked hell hole the PC's are dropped into. Either way, those stats seem OK. That leave Willpower (HP) and learning (skill points). I'm guessing that will=HP is obvious enough hence my conclusion is toning down learning a bit. What do you guys suggest? So how to
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Feb 4, 2017 21:45:45 GMT
The 20s/30s game started at 1500 default. Eventually, that was bumped up to 1800 for new characters entering into it once it had been going for a long time. With the switch to the modern era, everyone agreed that more skills would be "mandatory" so starting was bumped up to 2000. I'd rather have it *all* X x learning = stat points. Makes 'learning' more important. That would also give a possible 'concept' character of 'fuck it, I just want an assload of starting skills'. Pondering aloud 200xlearning = 2000 to 4000 points 250xlearning = 2500 to 5000 points hum... If you want to have a larger spread of starting points, you could add an exponent. E.G. 10xLearning 2 = 1000 to 4000 points 12xLearning 2 = 1200 to 4800 points 15xLearning 2 = 1500 to 6000 Learning 3 = 1000 to 8000 points etc.
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Post by logan9a on Feb 4, 2017 21:55:24 GMT
Thinking a smaller spread of points (reference conversation above) might be better.
Right now, we're trying to figure out how to make 'learning' worth buying without completely blowing away starting sanity and HP.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Feb 4, 2017 22:59:56 GMT
In the examples I listed, points in learning start out similar to your listed values (200-250), and become more valuable the more you invest.
If skillpoints=12xLearning2, raising Learning from 10 to 11 is worth 252 skill points, and raising Learning from 19-20 is worth 468 skill points
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Post by logan9a on Feb 4, 2017 23:04:03 GMT
I think I did not explain my point well.
We are trying to make the stat 'learning' about as valuable as the other stats. If it gives you a crap ton of points, nobody will take much willpower, sanity or essence.
We need to make learning a bit less - not more - attractive. Figure out a number of points per stat point (better fixed than using 'math') that will make it more of a 'gosh what do I want to put my stat points into' rather than automatically dumping them all into learning because that's the only move that makes sense.
Capisci?
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Post by logan9a on Feb 4, 2017 23:07:36 GMT
Perhaps a different way to look at it -
5 SAN = about 1 HP? Debatable? Which would you rather have?
Cool.
How many skill points vs 1 HP? Or 5 san? Which is close to the 'gosh - I'm not sure' line? 50? 100? More? Less?
Getting back to what Travis said on page 2, he was talking about 25 or 50 skill points per point of Learning.
1 HP = 5 SAN = 25 skill points?
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Post by Fantômas on Feb 5, 2017 4:45:27 GMT
How are melee/brawling damage bonuses/negatives determined?
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Post by logan9a on Feb 5, 2017 11:39:07 GMT
Not sure on the negatives (nobody stars with them) but I was thinking along the lines of:
'Strength - change to 'strength' as a skill. If you have 80+ you get a +d4 damage bonus. If you have over 110(?) you get a +d6 damage bonus. Base 25. '
Note - all max starting skills are 60.
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