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Post by bentpaperclip on Jan 31, 2017 11:55:36 GMT
I had to roll jump at a quarter or die at least twice in different mods without having signed up for a pole vault competition-to-the-death. It was not untrained, but at the 60% professional "I can do this for a living" level. I burned through many poz to get under 15, but an "01" target number seems kind of unreasonable. If your GM is putting the characters' lives in the balance on a single die roll, especially at severe penalties, and it isn't something that you bought into as a player (by making decisions to put yourself there - either through dramatic intent or making terrible decisions that the GM warned you against), then your GM is being a dick. I don't think its a system problem at that point. I agree that being able to choose gives the player the most flexibility, but as Logan has said - its either / or.
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Post by logan9a on Jan 31, 2017 12:22:09 GMT
I'm starting to think I don't mind going either way or both on this one.
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Post by bentpaperclip on Jan 31, 2017 12:23:34 GMT
I'm starting to think I don't mind going either way or both on this one. Cool! I'll take every leg up we can get in the fight against our oppressor!
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Post by logan9a on Jan 31, 2017 15:21:49 GMT
You think it would be OK to let players choose which to take between -30 and half? -60 and a quarter?
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matchstickman
Agent
Messiah: Will rise again
Creator of and most frequent player of the Heroic Cthulhu Drinking Game
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Post by matchstickman on Jan 31, 2017 15:40:34 GMT
I dunno.. there's maths involved
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Post by bentpaperclip on Jan 31, 2017 15:41:39 GMT
I do not believe it would affect game play. I think the biggest issue would be on the Logan, "This is a very difficult task... Roll at -60. Or at a quarter? Eighth? Fuck if I know - just roll something!"
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Post by bentpaperclip on Jan 31, 2017 15:42:54 GMT
It would be best if the new and improved excel character sheet included the penalized values (with an IF statement to select the appropriate modifier). It doesn't help if you're taking a bonus first though since it wouldn't be prepopulated on the sheet.
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Post by logan9a on Jan 31, 2017 16:29:48 GMT
I'm thinking the only rolls at a penalty I would ask for are
-30 -60 Give me an 01
As to the character sheet, I'm thinking that putting all three values on there will be too much clutter - there is already a lot of stuff on there.
Plus (as Travis said earlier) there would be bonuses which would be calculated in early.
Billy has 28% in club skill! Billy wants to beat some ass.
Billy is up against something the GM tells him he gets +20% to hit (it's a giant) but he has Doyle menacing him (skill at a quarter or -60%).
Hence, Billy's change to hit goes from 28% + 20 = 48 / 4 = unlikely. (12% but Billy will never figure that out because...Doyle continues to menace him.)
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Post by logan9a on Feb 26, 2017 21:27:28 GMT
Because I now have a great tool (love Zim!) I am working on codifying the rules a bit more. I realize that until the game actually starts and goes for a bit, few people spend little time reading these boards. Understandable but discouraging.
However, I am going to still post up codified rules here. In the future, perhaps someone will read them and help make them better.
We will pretend the player wishes to sneak by an enemy soldier. The player has an excellent sneak of 70%. The GM asks for a 'sneak roll'. If the player responds with '48!', that answer has no meaning at all to the GM. There are four basic answers:
Success: You have rolled your skill or less.
Failure: You have rolled more than your skill.
Critial: You have rolled 10% of your skill. If this math seems hard, try covering up the last number of your skill. If your skill is 70% and you cover the zero, you are left with 7. Hence, if you roll a 01 to 07, you have rolled a critical.
Fumble: There is a fumble table simply because people don't like to think. The fumble is determined by again covering the last number of your skill and putting a 9 in front of the number that remains. Hence, if you have a 70%, your fumble range is 97 or higher. [Special note: If your skill is 99 or higher, you only fumble by rolling 00 (that's a 100).]
Saying any but these four results will generally get you questioned or mocked by the GM.
The only exception is 'showing off your math skills in hope of a slightly better result'.
In the example above with a 70% sneak skill at rolling a 48, the player may say 'made it by over twenty'. This tells the GM that not only have they made it but done a bit better than just making it.
Generally, you don't want to bother with this unless a) you have good math skills and b) you make it by twenty or more. Making your roll 'with six points to spare!' impresses no one.
REDUCATIONS TO ROLLS
If you try to do hard stuff, the GM may choose to penalize your skill.
[Note for GM's: Flat reductions favor those with high skills. Percentage reductions aid those with low skills. I don't care which the player uses. Either way the rule is to roll first, figure out whether you made it or not later. Because math is hard.]
In these cases, the GM will ask for 'give me a roll at -30' or 'give me a roll by half'. The player must then (remembering the GM is a) concentrating on lots of other stuff b) expects the player to know this and c) probably senile figure out (after rolling) which is more advantageous for him/her.
In the above example, the player has a sneak skill of 70%. If the GM asks for 'a roll at half', and the player rolls a 36 they will fail unless they remember that when the GM asks for a 'roll at half' he/she also means 'or at -30'. The correct response in this case would be 'made it at -30'. The GM will then be molified and possibly move on.
Those who can't figure out the math correctly will always fail. This is because the GM is hard on those who can't figure out simple math.
Sometimes, the roll is really hard. If the sneaking player is attempting to do so in a 'one man band' outfit, the GM may taunt them and say "Give me a roll at -60' (or a quarter skill).
Again, roll first. Nobody wants to waste their lives waiting for a person who seems to have turned into a special needs individual to work out a simple formula then roll an 87.
SUMMARY
Hard: -30 from skill (or half)
Really hard: -60 from skill (or quarter)
ADDITIONS TO SKILLS
These are always given as a flat rate: +5%, +10%, etc.
ADDITIONS AND SUBTRACTIONS TO SKILLS
Additions first, then subtractions.
Example: Jim wants to disarm a bomb! Jim has a 34% demolitions skill. Jim has some notes dealing with this sort of bomb. The GM gives him a +10%. Unfortunately, it is a massively complicated type of bomb giving him skill at -60/quarter.
Hence: 34+10 (if you are reading this the proper thing is ROLL FIRST, DAMMIT!)
Let's start again: After rolling and getting a really low number, we can figure out the percentage: 34+10=44 skill at a quarter = 11%.
CHANGES TO CRITICALS AND FUMBLES
Your fumble and critical range changes depending on additions and subtractions.
Normally, Jim's demolition skill of 34% would give him a critical on a 1, 2 or 3 and a fumble on a 93 or higher.
However, in the example above, he can only critical on a 1. He fumbles on a 91 or higher.
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matchstickman
Agent
Messiah: Will rise again
Creator of and most frequent player of the Heroic Cthulhu Drinking Game
Posts: 2,939
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Post by matchstickman on Feb 26, 2017 22:11:07 GMT
So if your skill-60 would be less than 0, you can choose to roll at a quarter instead? That seems ... counter-intuitive.
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Post by logan9a on Feb 26, 2017 22:27:17 GMT
So if your skill-60 would be less than 0, you can choose to roll at a quarter instead? That seems ... counter-intuitive. Does it? The GM can ask for either and they are interchangeable. This way (as was pointed out to me previously in this thread) does help out low skilled players.
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Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
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Post by Scott on Feb 28, 2017 21:59:10 GMT
So if your skill-60 would be less than 0, you can choose to roll at a quarter instead? That seems ... counter-intuitive. It seems rather straightforward to me. I like it. We could say the default terminology is "at a half/quarter (but you can do -30/60 instead, if that's better for you.)" ...if that makes Richard's brain hurt less. Just remember skill >60 means you always want -30 instead of half, and skill >80 means you always want -60 instead of a quarter. The only thing I found counter-intuitive was the spelling of "reductions".
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Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
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Post by Scott on Feb 27, 2018 0:03:29 GMT
Bump.
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