Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
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Death
Feb 4, 2017 21:56:15 GMT
Post by Scott on Feb 4, 2017 21:56:15 GMT
Well I can't say that I like that. I've always marked it as the sign of a fundamentally flawed system when a character might logically say "Screw it. I'll just off myself and catch a rez rather than dealing with this situation."
I'd rather you lose all your poz when you die, but respawn with a fresh 5 poz.
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Death
Feb 4, 2017 22:05:52 GMT
Post by logan9a on Feb 4, 2017 22:05:52 GMT
Well I can't say that I like that. I've always marked it as the sign of a fundamentally flawed system when a character might logically say "Screw it. I'll just off myself and catch a rez rather than dealing with this situation." I'd rather you lose all your poz when you die, but respawn with a fresh 5 poz. Fortunately, the players I've normally got are very good at avoiding death. Plus, the difference between 5 poz and 20 poz frankly isn't much. And 20 poz is the most someone can have; the rest are sucked off to 'some other great purpose'. So I'm not worried about it. With all the other death penalties (loss of stats, skills and probably possessions) I'm thinking I don't need to 'stick it to them' for some trivial amount of poz.
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Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
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Death
Feb 4, 2017 22:47:51 GMT
Post by Scott on Feb 4, 2017 22:47:51 GMT
Poz is not trivial.
And the difference is not between 5 and 20. The difference is between characters having to go all out to survive but coming back with some breathing room if they die and characters with 20 poz choosing to let themselves die at the first sight of a penalized roll rather than risking being drained and dying anyway and coming back still on the razor's edge of another death, likely dying several times in a row and permanently losing the character.
I know which one I think will make for better stories.
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Death
Feb 4, 2017 22:52:45 GMT
Post by logan9a on Feb 4, 2017 22:52:45 GMT
You are making the assumption the character respawns in the same area they died in?
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Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
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Death
Feb 5, 2017 18:49:22 GMT
Post by Scott on Feb 5, 2017 18:49:22 GMT
You are making the assumption the character respawns in the same area they died in? That doesn't really enter into it. It looks exploitable either way.
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Death
Feb 5, 2017 19:43:54 GMT
Post by logan9a on Feb 5, 2017 19:43:54 GMT
With all the stat and skill losses, I'm not seeing it.
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thad
Senior Staff
No soy mexicano
Posts: 2,386
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Death
Feb 17, 2017 18:53:29 GMT
Post by thad on Feb 17, 2017 18:53:29 GMT
From an in character perspective, how are we dealing with death? The first time someone dies, we throw their body in a grave/convenient nearby abyss, but then... they magically reappear? Does the person consider themselves a zombie now? Will we understand in character that the person is actually back?
This can lead to "okay, I'll take this one and die, seen you soon!", which really undercuts any sense of importance of death.
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Death
Feb 17, 2017 19:00:37 GMT
Post by logan9a on Feb 17, 2017 19:00:37 GMT
For that, you'll have to find out in game. I believe that death will suck though not be as final.
The stat losses alone will suck - and you can't have many of those before it's make a new character time.
Consider - a new character will probably have a 10 in something. That means that for a PC, the max times they can die is five. Sounds like a lot until you consider that every single time they come back (however that works, it's a FOIG thing but very probably NOT immediate so the player will be sitting on their hands for a bit) they are 1/5th or more weaker.
Edit: PS: I do like this way more than "I've got 50 poz and am pretty much indestructible. At 100 poz, I go wild till I get back down to 50."
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Death
Feb 17, 2017 21:49:25 GMT
Post by bentpaperclip on Feb 17, 2017 21:49:25 GMT
I'm not going to argue about this anymore since it is clearly part of the setting, but your math here is wrong. Most characters who die and come back will likely not be new characters (better to just roll up a new one than take the penalties). Therefore, the number of times you can die is infinite - you just need to make sure it doesn't happen repeatedly in rapid succession. More in a "I jumped on the grenade last time, it's your turn this time" kind of way. The stat losses will definitely suck, but not as much as death, and not 1/5 of effectiveness.
I can understand your concern. The fear of death is a powerful motivator.
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Death
Feb 17, 2017 22:01:01 GMT
Post by logan9a on Feb 17, 2017 22:01:01 GMT
I'm not going to argue about this anymore since it is clearly part of the setting, but your math here is wrong. Most characters who die and come back will likely not be new characters (better to just roll up a new one than take the penalties). Therefore, the number of times you can die is infinite - you just need to make sure it doesn't happen repeatedly in rapid succession. More in a "I jumped on the grenade last time, it's your turn this time" kind of way. The stat losses will definitely suck, but not as much as death, and not 1/5 of effectiveness. I'm hoping that players who get enough plot attached to their characters will suck it up and come back as the same character. Pretty much the worst thing about death in an RPG IMO is that if a character dies for good all that plot is lost. Mind you, if the player says "Oh, now I understand the game better and know what kind of character I want to make now"" or "I really wasn't enjoying that last character anyway" or something like that, OK. But if a character has interesting stuff going on in his/her life, maybe some nifty skills/powers/etc they may say "Yeah, I'll try this respawning thing and see how it works." Edit: I'm thinking that after the PC's become accustomed to the death system that if they die (I think they will still choose to avoid it unlike some of the wild speculation above) that they will say 'OK - minus two (or 10 points) from everything - yeah. I can suck that up and get it back through hard play. It will sting for a bit but I can get it back.' Just look how crazy some of the stats got before! In this game, everything is limited to 20 (or 100 in the case of Sanity). And yet, I don't think it will be overbalanced. I can understand your concern. The fear of death is a powerful motivator. I would agree that in this game the fear of death is down quite a lot but honestly I don't want that to be the main motivator for the players. To me, the campaign I'm working on seems niftier than the first voyage of Columbus and the passing of disease on to the unsuspecting tribes of the Americas. Well, hopefully the PC's don't do a lot of genocide but it is HC and you can never tell.
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Death
Feb 17, 2017 22:10:23 GMT
Post by logan9a on Feb 17, 2017 22:10:23 GMT
PS: Might shit change after the players have played a few sessions and see what the campaign is about and then suggest some wildly cool stuff that I've not thought of? You betcha.
But first, I want to get them into the game.
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Death
Feb 17, 2017 22:35:04 GMT
Post by bentpaperclip on Feb 17, 2017 22:35:04 GMT
I'm uncertain why you quoted me in the post above since your response has nothing to do with mine! (No additional response necessary, and I understand the point you were making. It just seemed odd.)
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Death
Feb 17, 2017 22:43:02 GMT
Post by logan9a on Feb 17, 2017 22:43:02 GMT
You try drinking 600ml of rum and see how coherent you are!
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Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
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Death
Feb 18, 2017 0:12:05 GMT
Post by Scott on Feb 18, 2017 0:12:05 GMT
you just need to make sure it doesn't happen repeatedly in rapid succession. There is no way to do that if you come back with zero poz.
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Death
Feb 18, 2017 0:15:25 GMT
Post by logan9a on Feb 18, 2017 0:15:25 GMT
On that I would disagree. I've seen a lot of players play very very conservatively when they are low on poz (or out) and not use any and still get through the mission. Plus, there are cards.
Edit: Yes, it is very possible to get into a 'death cycle' if you die with no poz then repeatedly die. If that happens, that dude (or dudette) was simply doomed to die and we all hope the next character has a more successful career. But after gaming with these guys for a couple years (and all the guest stars) I know there are some people who could make it through whole sessions with no poz spent. Possibly fumbles which the GM considers absolutely hilarious, but no poz spent.
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