Grenade!

[logan9a]

Since I was giddy about the damage table I was messing about with grenades.

I'm trying to think through the problem with them and here were my thoughts.


HAND GRENADE

Effective range (outdoor), roughly 40m thrown. (Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenade )

They have a wounding range of 15m, though fragments may travel a couple hundred meters. (Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenade )

There are three different areas you can be in:

Close enough damage: 2d8
Might be OK damage: (3 zones less) d10
Probably fine damage: (3 zones less) d4

How to determine which zone?

Obviously, the throw is critical but grenades generally go off the next round.

That means the target may or may not get a chance to dodge - if there is anywhere to dodge to.

Example Red vs Blue team.

Blue has the initiative. Does stuff. Has used his action.
Red's turn - red throws the grenade and succeeds at 'throwing' roll.

Next round:

Red has the initative. Grenade goes off. Blue takes full damage from grenade.


VS

Blue has initiative. Holds action.
Red's turn - red throws the grenade and succeeds at 'throwing' roll.
Blue curses and dodges.

Next round:

Red has the initiative. Grenade goes off. Blue takes Secondary damage.

Had Blue gone first and hoofed it, he might have taken tertiary damage or none at all.

[bentpaperclip]

Grenades have a 5m kill & 15m casualty. In your example, is 2d8 the "kill" radius and d10 the "casualty" radius? Or was 2d8 the 15m radius with the others being greater?

[logan9a]

Not sure on that - probably approximately 5m kill radius. Usually the party is fairly bunched up (unless they have CQC or have discovered the bad guys might own grenades and intentionally spread out) so I just assume that the grenade will probably get them all.

However - I'm trying to figure out a way to keep the figures kind of fuzzy because I don't use battle mats and such. Hence, the figures will always be fuzzy.

And I'm trying to figure out a quick and easy way to deal with that fuzziness.


And after this I'm thinking "What about big big bombs". Yes, we'll eventually need to expand the table.

But I'm wondering if the same basic thing that gets used for grenades can also somehow be used for big explosions.

Example: You walk into a room, tripping a laser. The PC's are on the 15th floor of the building when this happens: www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcmglTBzFjk

[logan9a]

Bit updated though questions still remain:


HAND GRENADE

Effective range (outdoor), roughly 40m thrown. (Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenade )

At ranges as close as 20 meters, a thrower's chances of missing a standard 1-meter by 1-meter window are high. (Source: www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/use.html )

They have a wounding range of 15m, though fragments may travel a couple hundred meters. (Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenade )

There are three different areas you can be in:

Close enough damage: 2d8
Might be OK damage: (3 zones less) d10
Probably fine damage: (3 zones less) d4

How to determine which zone?

Obviously, the throw is critical but grenades generally go off the next round.

That means the target may or may not get a chance to dodge - if there is anywhere to dodge to.

Example Red vs Blue team.

Blue has the initiative. Does stuff. Has used his action.
Red's turn - red throws the grenade and succeeds at 'throwing' roll.

Next round:

Red has the initative. Grenade goes off. Blue takes full damage from grenade.


VS

Blue has initiative. Holds action.
Red's turn - red throws the grenade and succeeds at 'throwing' roll.
Blue curses and dodges.

Next round:

Red has the initiative. Grenade goes off. Blue takes Secondary damage.

Had Blue gone first and hoofed it, he might have taken tertiary damage or none at all.




CAN WE PICK UP AND THROW BACK THE GRENADE?

If dealing with untrained idiots and you have a 'haste', quite possibly. If you are dealing with trained people, remember:

"A key concern is that the grenade is not picked up and thrown back. The USMC preferred technique to prevent this is a hard-throw, skip/bounce technique, where the grenade is thrown hard enough that it bounces or skips around, being hard to pick up and throw back – this is applicable when clearing a room, for instance." - source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenade

Hence trying to do so would just mean you are closer to it when it blows up.



HAND GRENADES AND STRUCTURAL DAMAGE

For some reason (probably because they don't know any better and it is pretty) Hollywood has been gifting hand grenades with remarkable explosive power.

They don't have that.

If you are looking to do structural damage, a hand grenade is NOT your friend.

"The fragments from a fragmentation grenade cannot penetrate a single layer of sandbags, a cinder block, or a brick building, but they can perforate wood frame and tin buildings if exploded close to their walls.

Fragmentation barriers consisting of common office furniture, mattresses, doors, or books can be effective against the fragmentation grenade inside rooms. For this reason, a room should never be considered safe just because one or two grenades have been detonated inside. " - source: www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/use.html


CAN I USE A HAND GRENADE ONE HANDED?

If you've ever seen a movie where the hero (never have I seen a woman do it) pull the pin of the grenade with their teeth, you know that the movie is full of shit. You need both hands. This is because the pin (read as your main safety) is hard to get out. If it wasn't, you'd probably blow yourself up sooner.

[bentpaperclip]

I'm not sure how complicated you want this to be. Your idea seems workable. My thoughts:

Every explosion has a kill radius. This is max damage.
Every explosion has a casualty radius that his three times larger and does three shifts less damage.
Every explosion has a "unlucky fucker" radius that is further but not behind cover. Roll Luck. If you fail, take 3 shifts less damage.

These rules are for non-directional explosions (not like the one in your video link, which was shaped).

Most grenades are not used in the open. They are used in rooms. Do you plan on using chunky salsa rules (explosions in confined spaces)?

[thad]

To KISS even further:

Kill radius: whatever dice
Casualty radius: damage roll / 2
unlucky radius: damage roll / 5 or 10 or something.

Otherwise too much dice rolling to keep track of.

[logan9a]

Mar 2, 2017 20:35:15 GMT thad said:

To KISS even further:

Kill radius: whatever dice
Casualty radius: damage roll / 2
unlucky radius: damage roll / 5 or 10 or something.

Otherwise too much dice rolling to keep track of.

Hi! Did you see the new damage track thing?

[logan9a]

Mar 2, 2017 20:19:29 GMT bentpaperclip said:

I'm not sure how complicated you want this to be. Your idea seems workable. My thoughts:

Every explosion has a kill radius. This is max damage.
Every explosion has a casualty radius that his three times larger and does three shifts less damage.
Every explosion has a "unlucky fucker" radius that is further but not behind cover. Roll Luck. If you fail, take 3 shifts less damage.

These rules are for non-directional explosions (not like the one in your video link, which was shaped).

Most grenades are not used in the open. They are used in rooms. Do you plan on using chunky salsa rules (explosions in confined spaces)?

Though the chunky salsa rules are tempting, I might just do shift one up if the individuals are in a really small area or something.

This part:

Every explosion has a kill radius. This is max damage.
Every explosion has a casualty radius that his three times larger and does three shifts less damage.
Every explosion has a "unlucky fucker" radius that is further but not behind cover. Roll Luck. If you fail, take 3 shifts less damage.

Looks fine.

Now - how does 'dodge' affect it?

[bentpaperclip]

Um...it doesn't. You can't dodge explosions. Unless you find cover. Or is that what "dodge" represents?

[logan9a]

Well, in this case I'm thinking it is the only way to try to get away from the grenade.

I'm pretty much imagining the PC's in a room, a grenade lands in the center of them and all of the PC's yell "Dodge!"

Then what happens?

Yes, since the air will literally be filled with little bursts of love I'm going to guess that it would be mad dashing/diving behind furniture. If the PC's were in a featureless empty room and a grenade came in, their dodge would be read as "Try for a heroic pose before death".

[logan9a]

If we can come up with something simple, we can also use it for explosive booby traps, rockets, missiles and pretty much anything that goes 'boom'.


Edit: Possibly also area affecting spells. That go boom.

[thad]

Mar 2, 2017 20:37:31 GMT logan9a said:

Hi! Did you see the new damage track thing?

Yep. In that you work out the shifts based on what you want to do (double tap, auto, etc), then Roll One Dice.
Here you have dice for one level, do the shifts, another dice roll, more shifts, another dice. That's not as simple.

[logan9a]

Mar 3, 2017 18:27:24 GMT thad said:

Mar 2, 2017 20:37:31 GMT logan9a said:

Hi! Did you see the new damage track thing?

Yep. In that you work out the shifts based on what you want to do (double tap, auto, etc), then Roll One Dice.
Here you have dice for one level, do the shifts, another dice roll, more shifts, another dice. That's not as simple.

Well, kind of.

Example:

Anyone who fails their dodge (or doesn't do one) takes 2d10. Anyone who does make their dodge takes d8+d6. Everyone roll your own damage - as explosions are not even. (If someone is far outside of the radius and didn't dodge, I guess they're looking at d8 (six shifts down).

Reason - not seeing explosive damage doing 25 to everyone, 13 if you made your dodge roll, 7 if you were outside the blast radius... [Do you see this as better? You could be right. But that means that if an explosion is completely un-survivable for one person it is for everyone. The other way means people might live. It's like a 4d12 explosion where one guy rolls 40 damage (he's gone) and someone else get's 4 damage (handy sofa?). ]

But I'm still trying to factor in dodge and such. I'm having doubts the PC's will always be wearing bomb suits and I'm thinking they'd like some sort of action they can take if an explosion (or spell with exploding effect) goes off near them.


But also thinking that we're probably going to need to extend the damage track a bit.