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Post by logan9a on Mar 19, 2017 19:54:35 GMT
Thoughts? Normally, they give minuses (blindness, disorientation) but due to rule 1 I suppose we should just have them do stun damage. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stun_grenadeThe flash produced momentarily activates all photoreceptor cells in the eye, making vision impossible for approximately five seconds, until the eye restores itself to its normal, unstimulated state. An afterimage will also be visible for a considerable time, impairing the victim's ability to aim with precision. The loud blast is meant to cause temporary loss of hearing, and also disturbs the fluid in the ear, causing loss of balance. Effective range is about 2m from the device. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M84_stun_grenadeIn HC terms, anyone within 2m of the device make a health roll. Fumble: d6 stun damage + d6 real damage. Failure: 2d6 stun damage. Success: d6 stun damage. Critical: You take no damage from that puny mortal explosion. You laugh at their feeble efforts.
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matchstickman
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Post by matchstickman on Mar 20, 2017 8:14:25 GMT
I... don't get it. They take d6 stun and make a Health roll to see if they take more damage, is that right? Or is the Health roll instead of the original d6?
How does that work with Critical throwing rolls, do they suffer double damage on the original d6? Do they make the Health roll at normal? At -30? Is the damage they take from the Health roll doubled as well?
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Post by logan9a on Mar 20, 2017 11:40:22 GMT
Whoops - thanks for catching that. I'd forgotten to take out one of the d6's thingees.
With both stun grenades and regular grenades honestly I'm not sure to to factor in the throw roll.
Ideally it would be to get the grenade perfectly in the midst of all of the PC's after crazily bouncing it off several walls to prevent anyone from knowing where it will end up or throwing it back.
I suppose we could always have a throw vs dodge type of thing but normally during combat I try to make it so that it is straight rolls rather than resisted rolls (shoot then dodge rather than shoot vs dodge) just to speed it up a bit rather than have the small 'uh' moment which is fine to do if someone is say sneaking by someone else.
But since it is not the thrower themselves doing the damage (unless they throw to hit the person which is the wrong way to use a grenade - again bounce it off the walls or they might just catch it and throw it back) but the grenade exploding to cause the damage I can't see their throw roll factoring in on the damage at all.
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matchstickman
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Post by matchstickman on Mar 20, 2017 17:21:45 GMT
But since it is not the thrower themselves doing the damage (unless they throw to hit the person which is the wrong way to use a grenade - again bounce it off the walls or they might just catch it and throw it back) but the grenade exploding to cause the damage I can't see their throw roll factoring in on the damage at all. It's not the shooter themselves doing the damage when firing a gun, it's a lead projectile. Why does rolling a critical on your shooting skill deal double damage? It's not the thrower doing the damage when chucking a spear, it's the spear head. Why does rolling a critical on your throwing skill deal double damage? It's not the archer doing the damage when firing a bow, it's the arrow. Why does rolling a critical on your shooting skill deal double damage? etc etc
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Post by bentpaperclip on Mar 20, 2017 19:21:30 GMT
It is not the shooter doing the damage, but the shooter is placing the shot. With a critical hit, the shooter has managed to place the shot in a particularly effective location (organs, brain, etc.). When throwing a grenade (or any AOE attack really) the shooter is not targeting the victims "soft bits" but rather placing a device near the target which then explodes.
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matchstickman
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Post by matchstickman on Mar 20, 2017 20:42:09 GMT
So rolling a crit is placing the shot perfectly and the attacker benefits from that. How is placing the grenade under the feet of the target with a crit not going to use the same rules and do ... something extra?
You get something for rolling a crit every other time, why is this one situation singled out as a time when this is not the case? KISS
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matchstickman
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Creator of and most frequent player of the Heroic Cthulhu Drinking Game
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Post by matchstickman on Mar 20, 2017 20:45:56 GMT
Also 2M? Are you going Metric Logan? Your guns are still in '
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Post by logan9a on Mar 21, 2017 0:29:54 GMT
Are they? Copy paste from my most recent firearms thing (which hasn't been gone through yet)
In keeping in line with the normal modifiers of 0, -30, -60, -90
All ranges in meters
Pistol/machine pistol 5/15/30/60 Shotgun/SMG 10/40/80/150 (shotgun also decrease 1(?) on damage track each range past short?) AR 50/150/350/550 Rifle 100/250/500/750 Sniper Rifle 150/350/800/1500
Note - rifle and sniper rifle long and extreme ranges assume the use of a scope as well as a braced shot.
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Post by logan9a on Mar 21, 2017 0:30:57 GMT
Overall, yes, trying to go fully metric. One country (and two that most people can't place on the map) are the only ones using some dead monarch's foot for measurement.
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matchstickman
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Messiah: Will rise again
Creator of and most frequent player of the Heroic Cthulhu Drinking Game
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Post by matchstickman on Mar 21, 2017 2:30:43 GMT
Ah no sorry, movement not guns. Movement back to 10'/30'.
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Post by bentpaperclip on Mar 21, 2017 10:50:41 GMT
So rolling a crit is placing the shot perfectly and the attacker benefits from that. How is placing the grenade under the feet of the target with a crit not going to use the same rules and do ... something extra? You get something for rolling a crit every other time, why is this one situation singled out as a time when this is not the case? KISS You have a valid point regarding crits doing something extra. I would argue that extra damage for this doesn't make sense (but may be simplest). With AOE attacks, there is often more than one target all of whom will attempt to move to safety when they see the grenade. Even if it originally landed between the feet of a target, there is no chance they will not have moved for safety by the time it detonates. What about the other guys, do they get extra damage too? There is also game balance to consider. AOE are not POZable (in that attacker misses) and typically do significantly more damage than a firearm. If crits double damage (and that damage MUST be taken since it's a AOE) it makes AOE attack much more dangerous. What if on a critical throw roll the thrower has timed the throw perfectly and it detonates on the round it is thrown - defenders get no chance to dodge or throw it back? I think that would be valuable in that it would make the attack more likely to succeed (since right now they could have up to two turns of running the hell away before it explodes). Thoughts?
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Post by logan9a on Mar 21, 2017 11:09:01 GMT
Ah no sorry, movement not guns. Movement back to 10'/30'. Which thread is that on? I've been using 3/10m
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Post by logan9a on Mar 21, 2017 11:17:42 GMT
I would argue that extra damage for this doesn't make sense (but may be simplest). With AOE attacks, there is often more than one target all of whom will attempt to move to safety when they see the grenade. Even if it originally landed between the feet of a target, there is no chance they will not have moved for safety by the time it detonates. What about the other guys, do they get extra damage too? There is also game balance to consider. AOE are not POZable (in that attacker misses) and typically do significantly more damage than a firearm. If crits double damage (and that damage MUST be taken since it's a AOE) it makes AOE attack much more dangerous. What if on a critical throw roll the thrower has timed the throw perfectly and it detonates on the round it is thrown - defenders get no chance to dodge or throw it back? I think that would be valuable in that it would make the attack more likely to succeed (since right now they could have up to two turns of running the hell away before it explodes). Thoughts? It's a tricky bit since what Travis said is true. It's the grenade just being nearby that does the damage, not really the placement of the shot in this case. From what I've read (I don't use grenades) the perfect shot would be one in which the grenade bounced around a bit before going off - not one which was right at someone's feet - because that makes it pretty hard (or even impossible?) to throw back. Plus yeah - AOE's are no poz for a miss. Game balance. I'd say a crit with a grenade may catch another person in there, the person might not notice it at all with all the excitement going on (maybe it came in through their blind spot and they are probably deaf from the gunfire), maybe the grenade just ping pongs around wildly. I'm not sure. With all AOE's (whether stun or regular grenades, fireballs, rocket launchers, missiles, etc) I'd like to have just one set of cohesive rules. With the exception of stun grenades (which do stun damage, everything else does real) I want to get one cohesive set of rules. The only thing that will change is where on the damage track it is. (Note eventually I'll nicely ask Travis to expand the damage track as he seems to know what he's doing.)
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