The possible problem here

[Happy Fun Ball]

Alright, this is not going to be a popular thing to say.

There are too many damned spell trees. This magic system is becoming a byzantine nightmare. Giving people free spells for coming up with new stuff was a bad idea. It's led to sprawl.

Anyone, and I especially mean any new player, is going to look at this mess and swear off spellcasting for life.

I think the next obvious step here is to do some pruning, not add more trees and tiers. Consolidate this stuff and simplify the system.

I think we have 5 "must have" trees here: fire, water, air, earth and meta. Maybe you'll want to add metal and wood, because of the Chinese origins of magic.

Or it could be organized differently, by purpose, say: attack, subterfuge, matter manipulation, spirit manipulation, and mind manipulation. As an example, not because I think that's necessarily a good idea.

I won't participate in a train wreck, and that's what I see here. Let's get this thing organized and streamlined.

Also, possibly make it easier to get tier 1 spells, as they don't do much. Low magic is fine. Magic that's a pain in the ass to get in the first place to do very little (for a very long time) is just discouragement.

Sorry if I'm being hostile. That's really what I see here.

[logan9a]

"There are too many damned spell trees. This magic system is becoming a byzantine nightmare."

>>>Nobody has to take any spells or trees. If you keep track of them in the correct way, it is actually not that complicated.

"Giving people free spells for coming up with new stuff was a bad idea. It's led to sprawl."

>>>It's the only way to get someone other than Logan to work on the spell system.

"Anyone, and I especially mean any new player, is going to look at this mess and swear off spellcasting for life."

>>>I don't show newbies the spells nor make them learn any. No new players start with spells. Experienced players can teach spells to them if they wish. But, if someone doesn't want to do spell casting, in this system they can still have a viable character, which I like.

"I think the next obvious step here is to do some pruning, not add more trees and tiers. Consolidate this stuff and simplify the system."

>>>I think we have a lot more building before any pruning.

"I think we have 5 "must have" trees here: fire, water, air, earth and meta. Maybe you'll want to add metal and wood, because of the Chinese origins of magic."

>>>Again, I disagree. IMO, anyone who doesn't understand or can't follow the spell system should just steer clear of it. They don't need it to be a great character.

"Or it could be organized differently, by purpose, say: attack, subterfuge, matter manipulation, spirit manipulation, and mind manipulation. As an example, not because I think that's necessarily a good idea. "

>>>Skip!

"I won't participate in a train wreck, and that's what I see here. Let's get this thing organized and streamlined."

>>>I'm happy with where this is going, hence don't plan on changing it. This is actually the first spell system I've had in this system in the last two decades I am actually happy with.

"Also, possibly make it easier to get tier 1 spells, as they don't do much. Low magic is fine. Magic that's a pain in the ass to get in the first place to do very little (for a very long time) is just discouragement."

>>>Again I disagree. PC's can literally (unless they fumble) attempt to teach both of the other PC's playing with them a new spell EVERY SINGLE DAMNED DAY. If they don't, it is not a fault of the system. And that is pretty easy to get new spells at learn.


>>>Though I appreciate your input when you said "Alright, this is not going to be a popular thing to say." I'm thinking you kind of knew that saying it would not influence the spell system one iota in the direction you are talking about.

[M.]

I have to say I like to magic system in place. Having trees to follow makes it easier to keep tabs on the numerous spells out there, it’s just up to the individual to keep track of them.

The most important thing for a magic system is balancing, which Logan and I do work on constantly, trying to make sure MP cost, range, duration and tree location are all fairly set.

I do have to agree with you on the “credit” people get for working on spells, I personally don’t do a massive amount on the spells, but generally the “credit” I receive I normally end up just forgetting about and just earn them in game like everyone else, but like Logan said, he needs to motivate people somehow to help him write them up, he can’t be expected to do everything in this game.

Just my two cents,
Peace out

[Happy Fun Ball]

Sept 8, 2018 18:31:20 GMT logan9a said:

>>>Though I appreciate your input when you said "Alright, this is not going to be a popular thing to say." I'm thinking you kind of knew that saying it would not influence the spell system one iota in the direction you are talking about.

Yup. Have fun guys. I actually started reading the spell lists. Wow.

BTW... What's the highest tier any caster has reached after 2 1/2 seasons?

[logan9a]

That I'm not sure on - anyone know?

[Jana]

I'm not a caster in game, but I don't think the spell system is that complicated. If I wanted to have more magic, I could pay more attention to it, organize my notes about it, practice every day, get others to teach me new spells regularly, etc.

I like having more spell trees, it seems more realistic and interesting than the basic "water air earth fire" thing. In real life you have huge libraries, not few concise tables.

Maybe this conversation is about expectations? If you expect to get a lot of magic quick without working for it in game, it is understandable that you wouldn't enjoy this system. Doesn't mean it is a bad system necessarily, it is just something different than you expected/felt like playing at the moment.

[Fantômas]

Highest rank I have is 7 in one tree. Highest I have in any other tree is 2. I don't have any spells at do it for a living. Joshua started in season 2.

I like there being a larger variety of spell trees as it allows for diversity. The tree I have at rank 7 is not one of the basic elemental ones.

I see spells and magic like another skill. There is no requirement for people to be good at magic, nor if someone has little/no magic are they weaker than another character. There are skills other PCs have that Joshua does not have and visa versa. This does not make either character weaker than the other.

[Scott]

Sept 9, 2018 1:17:27 GMT Happy Fun Ball said:

BTW... What's the highest tier any caster has reached after 2 1/2 seasons?

That I'm not sure on - anyone know?

I have tens in four trees from design credit. Between limited applicability and MP costs, the spells I gained are still mostly at learn.

Via gameplay, I've only reached 2nd or 3rd tier spells.

[logan9a]

I'm totally fine with spells being a very slow progression thing.

Hard to get, don't do much, can live without them - but if you do have them (and some MP) they can be very useful.