PotatoJedi
DORA
Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 22, 2018 19:33:33 GMT
So I'm quite new to magic and how it all works. As far as I know, each school of magic has spells which are categorised into trees based on the tier or level of the spell, so you can't learn a third tier spell until you've learned the first and second (in that order). Fine and dandy.
What I'm confused about is why there are multiple trees of the same school, i.e. there is Meta 1 and Meta 2. Am I missing something blatantly obvious here? Why not just have everything in one school? You can have more than one spell in the same tier, or is that undesirable?
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Post by logan9a on Oct 22, 2018 20:02:11 GMT
Simple tree example:
Dull senses -> Daze -> [TBD] -> [TBD] -> Fear -> Fear (area) -> KO -> [TBD] -> [TBD] -> [TBD]
Complex tree example:
................................->Detect Magic 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 ........................................| Spell Helper -> Damaging Spell -> Lingering Spell -> Rapid Spell -> Time Delay -> Embiggen Spell -> Destabilize Spell -> Ready Spell -> Mana Trickle -> Efficient Spell ....| ....—> (TBD) -> (TBD) -> (TBD) -> Mana Recharge -> (TBD) -> (TBD) -> (TBD) -> (TBD) -> Mana Jolt (TBD)
Explanation:
Eventually, the trees will all grow to be more and more complex. Hopefully. You learn a level one spell from something like a magic book or your buddy or some weird NPC teacher. After that, you get to say a level two spell. Ideally, there would be say three level two spells to choose from. You can then work up in different branches that have more and more branches. But it is basically a way to slow down the magic learning and cause it to 'grow' over time rather than say learning a specific spell and going up in just that. Had that before, it didn't work out well and was a over powered for this system.
So I'm trying out this way. Extended play test sort of thing.
Also, this is the magic that the players know of thus far and as they have found, it only works in some places well, or at all.
To answer the next question, the TBD's are road blocks for the players. They are the 'to be determined' spells. Hence, on the first example tree, if a player learns 'dull senses' then gets a crit and picks up 'daze', they are stuck there until someone develops the third spell on the tree.
If nobody ever develops that spell, the later spells are blocked forever to the PC. [Note - some NPC's have spells regardless of trees or monsters have like abilities and such but NPC's have their own limitations and PC's pick up skills a lot faster than they do.]
Although it doesn't well please everyone, I have been allowing PC's who create a spell (or help refine a spell) in a needed gap (or hell, if they make a whole tree, whatever) to pick up those spells at learn without needing to roll a crit on a lower rank spell to get it. The reason is that seems to be the only way to motivate people to make spells.
If you have more questions on this, please let me know!
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PotatoJedi
DORA
Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 22, 2018 21:18:57 GMT
I do like that it's not simple to get the spells you want and that it requires work. But I'm struggling to understand/visualise the "complex" tree.
Is this more along the lines of what you mean…
| / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \
With each row representing the next level/tier and more and more branches potentially growing from each spell? Obviously it's not going to grow exponentially like that, but you get the picture. Is that what you were aiming for? Because I can't understand your complex tree example.
So you can have 3 level 2 spells and each of those spells can branch off into different level 3 spells, etc.
I would actually love to contribute to the magic system but I don't think I'd be able to do so until I know all the spells that are currently "available." I think once they're added to the Wiki, I can maybe add some suggestions myself. Speaking of which, I'll need to rethink how to categorise the spells on the Wiki as I was not anticipating branches to work quite like that.
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Post by logan9a on Oct 23, 2018 6:51:28 GMT
Sure, though I doubt the branches will be that symmetrical or nice. If I can get power going again when I get back I'll post the options of spell trees and then post one you are interested in to show you. The magic system is still in it's infancy.
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Post by logan9a on Oct 23, 2018 14:00:42 GMT
OK oh curious and helpful one. Here are the trees that have a little or a lot - let me know which one you'd like to see as an example. Ones with a * after them have very little shit in them.
air body* communication* control light* disorientation earth empathy fire gate and time ghost* healing knowledge magical defense meta movement* necromancy necromancy 2* negation nullification plant* pocket shadow sound stone/wood/metal (actually those can be found elsewhere within this section as Scott fairly recently got through with those before S3 began) Tech* telekinesis water*
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PotatoJedi
DORA
Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 23, 2018 14:55:33 GMT
I don't mind which one specifically – I just want to see another example of a complex tree. Why don't we do Meta as I believe that's quite developed already? Unless you have another suggestion.
I do have an idea on how to categorise them in a text format but I just need to confirm that the branches etc work the way I think they do before I make the suggestion.
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Post by logan9a on Oct 23, 2018 15:00:47 GMT
I think you've already got meta posted in this thread - unless you mean you'd like a copy paste of all the individual spells?
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PotatoJedi
DORA
Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 23, 2018 16:52:01 GMT
What I really just wanted was clarification on how the branches work. I'm pretty sure I've understood it correctly but I want to be 100% sure as this would require a slight overhaul of how things are categorised on the Wiki.
Here's how I understand it so far, and I realise it may look a little complicated at first but it's rather simple (it's all I can come up with so far, but I'll keep thinking). The image I drew above is what I'm talking about how each spell could potentially branch off into another branch.
Each spell will be followed by a number indicating the level/tier of the spell, followed by a letter indicating the branch. Each subsequent level and branch will use the same letters from the spell that preceded it was an additional letter at the end.
Might be easier just to give you an example of what I'm talking about.
1 (let's assume that this particular school only has one first level spell, so there's no need for any letters at the end)
2A, 2B, 2C (each letter represents a different possible branch going from that spell)
3Aa, 3Ab, 3Ba, (here we have 2 spells branching off from 2A, 1 from 2B and 0 from 2C)
4ABa, 4CAa (here we have one more branch from 2A -> 3Ab -> 4ABa. 4CAa is there, but since there is no 3Ca, the spell is locked)
Not very elegant at all, I know, but when you can have branches going off from every possible spell, it's going to get messy. By level 15 you can have up to 15 letters tagged on at the end… I think it may actually be worth creating an image of the tree with the names of all the spells on it and their levels, then you can click on the names to be taken to the description. This can potentially become a massive image (in terms of measurements, not digital storage), but I don't see any other way around it. I'm trying to think ahead for when we could potentially have lots and lots of spells in the same school.
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PotatoJedi
DORA
Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 23, 2018 17:12:16 GMT
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Scott
DORA
(Scott)
*Sigh*
Posts: 1,919
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Post by Scott on Oct 23, 2018 17:57:11 GMT
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Post by logan9a on Oct 23, 2018 18:00:04 GMT
Yes - that's how it goes. I'd suggest checking out Scapple instead. Hella long trial period. I ended up buying it on the same day because I said "Yep - going to get my money's worth out of this" but if you don't buy it - hella long trial period. www.literatureandlatte.com/scapple/overview
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PotatoJedi
DORA
Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 23, 2018 18:11:14 GMT
Perfect, thank you. I have what I need now to start categorising all the spells. Well… I still need the spells themselves and the levels and branches… But at least I know how it all works. I'll use this website bubbl.us/005066921602008103 (that's just an example Tree) and link each school to its own tree on that site. The advantage of this site is that you can add hyperlinks to each node, allowing you to quickly see and view spells by clicking on them. The hard part now (for me) is to sift through the forums and figure out what spells go into what branch/level… I can't quite figure that out yet (maybe I'm missing something obvious?). Would appreciate some help on that.
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Post by logan9a on Oct 23, 2018 18:23:54 GMT
Well, in the past I was keeping the spells semi secret - so that the players could be all interested and surprised when they got a good tree.
Unless someone wanted to work on a particular tree - then that stuff got released.
Do you think it would be better if I were to release all the info instead?
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PotatoJedi
DORA
Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 23, 2018 18:47:55 GMT
Personally? No – I like the secrecy. Keep it that way. I definitely appreciate having a surprise element to discovering new spells. Unfortunately, though, that makes categorising them a bit awkward.
I think what I'll do is just rein back my eagerness to lay things out all neat and easily accessible, and instead add spells to trees on the Wiki and bubbl.us as I learn them In Game. Of course, other players can also add spells to the Wiki.
I think I'm just too used to having information readily available in any game that I play that I'm having withdrawal symptoms when I can't find something I am looking for/interested in. Something I'll need to adapt to. I do appreciate you taking the time to explain everything!
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Post by logan9a on Oct 23, 2018 19:15:07 GMT
Sir - there is PLENTY of story stuff that can be added. I think that will keep you plenty busy if you are looking to have it all there.
And story > spells, yes?
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