Special weapon: Sword breaker

[logan9a]

They're not actually meant to 'break' swords but to 'break' your ability to use the weapon by trapping it.

Thoughts on simple rules?

[PotatoJedi]

Well what does it do exactly? How does it "trap" it?

First thoughts without really knowing much is to just have a new skill "Sword Trap" which you roll opposed by your opponent's Strength or something. If you succeed, they can't use the weaponuntil they succeed on their own X skill to break free.

[logan9a]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUaVFufDiks

[Scott]

+10 to Knife Parry. Is a large knife (hard to conceal) but deals damage as a small knife.

[PotatoJedi]

Oh. It's an actual real world weapon. Interesting.

Assuming we're talking about the European one, here's one idea:

Sword Breaker: using this specific weapon, you can trap your opponent's sword with your Sword Breaker, preventing them from being able to use their sword.

When you are attacked by another sword of appropriate size (GM's discretion), following the same basic rules as Parrying, make a Sword Breaker roll. On a success, you trap the opponent's weapon with your Sword Breaker. The opponent cannot use their sword until they make a successful [Strength? Dexterity? Something else?] roll. Alternatively, they can drop their sword and then pick it up later. While you have your opponent's sword trapped in this manner, you are at a [-10%-30%?] penalty to attack. You cannot attack with your Sword Breaker if you have a sword trapped in it, but you can attack with a different weapon.


ALTERNATIVE:

When you are attacked by another sword of appropriate size (GM's discretion), following the same basic rules as Parrying, make a Sword Breaker roll. On a success, you trap the opponent's weapon with your Sword Breaker. The opponent cannot use their sword until it is no longer trapped. At the start of each of your turns as a free action, make another Sword Breaker roll. If you fail (or if you forget), the opponent's sword is released. Your opponent can drop their sword and then pick it up later. While you have your opponent's sword trapped in this manner, you are at a [-10%-30%?] penalty to attack. You cannot attack with your Sword Breaker if you have a sword trapped in it, but you can attack with a different weapon.

[logan9a]

Actually, I think you'd be at a bonus to attack in that they can't parry with the trapped weapon.

I suppose we can just have this weapon as a 'sticky' thing in that if a parry is done with it then we can move to roll their special 'sword breaker' skill. If that is gotten (free action) then the sword is trapped unless the other person uses a round to free their weapon (dex, str, sword martial arts?).

Maybe even a resistance roll their sword skill vs your breaking skill to start it. After that it is 'stickied' to you?

Rather than making a sword breaker roll each round (tedious) you just can't use your breaker till they free their sword again.

The best way (it would seem) would be to just drop your weapon and fast draw a new one or be better than they are.



No Scott - I don't want to give a bonus to parry - nothing else (even shields) has it and I'm going for consistency.

[PotatoJedi]

Ooh, I like that.

Make a Parry roll. If you succeed, you may make a Sword Breaker roll. If you succeed again, the opponent's weapon is trapped until freed [requiring something?] and you cannot use your Sword Breaker until then. If you fail the Sword Breaker roll, you automatically fail your Parry roll as well.

I'm just wondering if there should be a penalty or something to "dropping and picking up" your weapon if it gets trapped, as theoretically you can drop it as a Free Action and then pick it up again as a Simple Action. Maybe dropping it in this fashion costs a Simple Action, otherwise doing it as a Free Action will send the weapon flying away in a random direction?

[logan9a]

If you drop the weapon, the other guy technically has it.

He can't use it but can toss it away.

If you drop the weapon then say "Ah ha bitches! I have another!" you are doing well in that fight.

[Scott]

Okay. Well, now we're talking about basically having the sword-breaker grapple their weapon.

So do you want it to be a special Sword-Breaker skill or do you just want to use the grapple skill?

Then can it be done offensively or do you have to wait for them to attack you?

If you have to wait for them to attack you, do you have to succeed on Knife Parry first, or can you just roll your Sword-Breaker/Grapple skill?

Either way, is it an opposed roll?

It's called a "sword-breaker" but really you should be able to "catch" any kind of weapon that will fit in the "serrations", so what all can it affect?

How do you get it out? Obviously takes an action. Probably an opposed roll? What vs what? Str/Dex/Sword/Grapple/MA vs Str/Knife/Sword-Breaker/Grapple/MA?

[PotatoJedi]

Sword Breaker is a bit misleading, I'll admit. Sword Trapper is a lot more sensible of a name, but whatever.

For me, I would argue that it be a unique skill. While you are technically "grappling" their weapon, that's not really what I think of when I think of that skill being used. It's more of a hand-to-hand thing. If you were to try and actually use Grapple on someone's weapon, that sounds more like you're trying to disarm them. Not sure if there are any rules for that already.

So, I would say…

It's a defensive weapon, so you use that bit of it defensively. They attack you first, then you parry. If you succeed, then you can Sword Break/Trap/whatever you want to call it. If you succeed on that as well, then the opponent can either drop their weapon, allowing you to throw it away from them (maybe even grab it yourself?), or they can try an opposed Roll: your Sword Break VS their Dexterity (as they try to wriggle it free, sounds dextrous to me) to regain control over it. Obviously, while you have their weapon trapped, you can't do anything with your Sword Breaker unless you willingly let go of their weapon (free action?).

Those are just my thoughts on how it could work. Though I certainly see the reasoning behind using Grapple instead of its own unique skill (particularly due to the fact that nobody will start with it higher than their Learn unless they make a new character).

[logan9a]

I could see also them using STR to get the weapon free. Imagine an ogre fighting with a rapier against a normal guy who sword traps it on his sword breaker.

[Scott]

Jan 29, 2019 8:04:47 GMT logan9a said:

I could see also them using STR to get the weapon free. Imagine an ogre fighting with a rapier against a normal guy who sword traps it on his sword breaker.

I imagine either the rapier breaks (that is the type of sword that a sword-breaker could actually snap), or the ogre pulls the sword-breaker out of the normal guy's hand.

[logan9a]

Depends on the rapier. In the video it talks about most European swords being of very good (spring) steel as opposed to the katanas being from shit steel (hence the folding).

Plus, don't forget that the players could possibly get something like titanium weapons. However, since weapon damage (except by fumble) is too fiddly for this system, we can assume normal weapons cannot be broken.

I think the ogre could free his sword; whether by pulling the sword breaker out of the guys hand or just sliding it forcibly out. It's only really being held there by the strength of the guy trapping it.

So if we were to use standard grapple rules, you could pit MA, STR or DEX vs whichever of those three the guy wants to resist with. Example:

GM: The ogre is going to use his massive (110) strength to yank his sword out!
PC: I try to use my sword MA of 90% to keep it in there through fancy moves!
GM rolls 110 vs 90 (30% chance the PC can keep the weapon trapped).

Same as grapple.

[Scott]

Using the same rules as grapple would help keep it simple. But what is the advantage of the sword-breaker as opposed for grabbing a weapon with your bare hand then? You do it as a free action after a parry instead of using your action on your turn?

Also it seems we need to clarify whether a sword-breaker is a knife or a sword. The sword-breakers of history were a specific type of main-gauche (parrying dagger). So in my book it is a knife and uses Knife, Knife Parry, Fast Draw Knife, Knife Martial Arts, (and possibly a separate sword-breaker skill).

But a sword is just a bigger knife, so can you just make a sword-sized sword-breaker even though that wasn't a thing historically? I don't know, I presume it wasn't done because it would be unwieldy, but I don't really have the swordcraft expertise to say more.

No Scott - I don't want to give a bonus to parry - nothing else (even shields) has it and I'm going for consistency.

Meh, other weapon types give small bonuses. Shotguns get a small bonus to hit little critters, right?

[logan9a]

"Using the same rules as grapple would help keep it simple. But what is the advantage of the sword-breaker as opposed for grabbing a weapon with your bare hand then? You do it as a free action after a parry instead of using your action on your turn?"

No MA and using the breaker with special new 'breaker' skill (as I think Alex suggested) as a free action if you successfully parry (breaker parry or maybe dagger parry would work as well).

"Also it seems we need to clarify whether a sword-breaker is a knife or a sword." Knife. Kukri is probably the largest 'knife' we have.

"But a sword is just a bigger knife, so can you just make a sword-sized sword-breaker even though that wasn't a thing historically? I don't know, I presume it wasn't done because it would be unwieldy, but I don't really have the swordcraft expertise to say more."

The reason people don't typically wield two swords at once (outside of the movies) is because the blades tend to get in the way of each other. See also the video I linked. That guy's pretty much an expert.

"Meh, other weapon types give small bonuses. Shotguns get a small bonus to hit little critters, right?" What other weapons aside from shotgun can you think of? (Also, technically, the shotgun just ignores a penalty rather than giving a bonus.)