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Post by logan9a on Jul 8, 2019 10:26:59 GMT
Had mentioned to Ralph, thought I'd put it here for use in a later gamer talk
Note that in 'open world', exploration is the key. Open world is hard for people who don't have firm goals but in the absence of a goal, exploration is a big deal. There is a lot of shit to go see and find. The trick is to have either the right kind of vehicles or the kind of character that can survive 'in the bush' when going out to explore so you don't act like a city kid lost for a couple days and die - which can happen.
Also, while doing open world exploring, you can find various plot hooks, secrets, nifty items, etc lying around.
This campaign is all about information and few of the players really dig into 'what's all this then' - most are content with 'give us an adventure' like baby birds going for food.
While that is OK as well, there is a lot out there to do and see.
also, can talk about the 'wander around' phenomena.
Difficulties of running people on an open world Difficulties for players being run in an open world Why there are problems with being in an open world for the players Can anything be done to solve the problems? Benefits to the players of being run in an open world.
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jlevy531
DORA
Checking in to see whats been going on
Posts: 217
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Post by jlevy531 on Jul 8, 2019 22:02:29 GMT
I was kinda thinking the same thing! Im all about exploring and finding new shit! if certain people want to handle the puzzle i'm cool with that too. I don't mind digging in deep either so whatever goes goes. if we are at a stand still let's find some new shit to do
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Post by logan9a on Jul 9, 2019 8:06:19 GMT
The 'gamer talk' section is for ideas on things to talk about during the next gamer talk we do on air outside of normal gaming sessions.
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thad
Senior Staff
No soy mexicano
Posts: 2,386
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Post by thad on Jul 11, 2019 7:15:23 GMT
This campaign is all about information and few of the players really dig into 'what's all this then' - most are content with 'give us an adventure' like baby birds going for food. The flip side to that is: "hey, what about this?" "I haven't gotten anything prepped, do something else. Here is an adventure I have ready..."
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Post by logan9a on Jul 19, 2019 22:07:03 GMT
That's very cool.
It seems to me that some people like going sight seeing. This kind of makes sense because honestly, there doesn't seem to be a lot of campaigns in which you can do this. Come to think of it, in four decades, I've never played in a campaign where the players *could* just go around and see stuff. In this campaign - for the players who want to scout (like Freddy when he is soloing) it is super useful because it lets the players know what is going on in different zones.
There are also some zones in which exploration is the whole thing. Some players are super hampered here because they don't have any sort of skills in exploration - survival outside of a hotel, for example. So they go out for a very short time, note that life is hard outside and then go somewhere else. But I have hidden a lot of good/interesting/needed stuff out there so it is good to do if you have someone with you who actually has the skills to keep you alive.
Then, after gaining intelligence on 'what fucked up stuff is now going on in the various zones' the players often run into the next problem of "What do we do about it? How do we solve this?" This is where the 'open world' often grinds out because the players (sometimes) have zero clue how to deal with the stuff they have found. Or don't understand what they are seeing or why this is the way it is. Or make incorrect assumptions about what is going on because they don't know or utilize the 'scientific method'.
And then sometimes, they start wandering around saying "Well, this is fucked up. Anyone have any ideas on how to fix/deal with this thing? No?" And then they go on to the next thing, repeat. I call this "Shopping for things you cannot afford to purchase." it's like 'window shopping plots'.
While there are some players who can 'think sideways' into a solution that is not completely obvious for these messed up things, it is not easy. This is some of the 'meat' of the campaign. If it was easy, some NPC would have taken care of it. If it was straightforward, it would be D&D.
Sometimes, clever players 'cheat' (legally) by taking things from one zone and finding clever things to do with them in other zones. The campaign is designed to do that. I love that kind of clever thinking.
Those are the issues I've noticed with 'open world'. Some people have become very accustomed to - and comfortable with 'here is your mod, go get it'. Nothing wrong with that style of play - some good/funny/interesting stuff happens on it. But for the big stuff of the campaign it is the wandering around, finding shit out, dealing with shit, discovering how things work and why - etc.
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Post by logan9a on Aug 13, 2019 8:59:26 GMT
For mods, prep precedes interest.
For open world, prep follows interest.
In other words, with a mod, I make it then the players get interested in it as they go.
When the players keep hanging out in and messing with a zone long enough, I begin making plots for it. Note that I do not make plots necessarily based on what the PC's tell me they are interested in (cat herding) but what they repeatedly show me they are interested in.
Mods are good for people who don't know (or can't be bothered to figure out) what they're interested in - or only have vague ideas.
Open world is good for people who have a plan and want to slowly, painstakingly beat the world into submission and make it follow their plan.
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Post by logan9a on Aug 26, 2019 17:44:00 GMT
just like in real life, there are people who want to run a business, others who want to work for a business. Running a business is harder but pays better if you know what you're doing. Working for a business means show up, do shit, get paid, go home and forget about it. All good. The trick is to know most people do not own a business. Same in the game.
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Post by logan9a on Aug 27, 2019 13:30:00 GMT
After GM'ing a sandbox for a couple of years, I've come to some conclusions. First, my campaign isn't the normal set up where you have a fixed group and it is the same X number of people who show up every session. There are twenty plus PC's who sign up months ahead of time to play in groups of three at a time. With that out of the way - what my experience has been: There are some people who want to own/run a business. There are a lot more people who want to show up for work, put in their time, go home and forget about the job. (Yes, I know there is a lot more than that to who gets to own a business but go with me just for this analogy). The business owners - they are the ones who want the sandbox. They want to ponder about the world and go make their own plots and do stuff within it. The workers - they are the ones who just want to have a mod with a definite beginning, middle and an end. The sandbox can definitely work but you have to have 'business owners' to pull it off. Otherwise, you have the workers wandering around, peering at stuff - sometimes for the whole session - and wondering where the plot is. Fortunately, I have both kinds of players so I run a sandbox that also has a lot of mods within it.
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