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Post by logan9a on Feb 21, 2017 12:15:39 GMT
Do you think I should lower the fist damage? Strength bonus damage? Martial arts damage? Yes, if you want gritty. No, if you want pulp. I'm a little confused. I thought high damage = gritty, low damage = pulp?
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matchstickman
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Post by matchstickman on Feb 21, 2017 13:05:36 GMT
I'm a little confused. I thought high damage = gritty, low damage = pulp? I don't equate being able to punch out a guy in the best armour money can buy with Gritty, isn't knocking out your foes no matter what they're wearing more Pulp adventure?
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Post by logan9a on Feb 21, 2017 16:45:38 GMT
So low gun damage and high fist damage (as well as low armor values) equal pulp?
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matchstickman
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Post by matchstickman on Feb 21, 2017 18:06:57 GMT
I don't think I ever said I liked the gun damage, or that I equated the current gun damages as pulp or gritty.
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matchstickman
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Post by matchstickman on Feb 21, 2017 18:09:21 GMT
On average how many shots/punches should an average person be able to take in a Gritty game? Same question for a Pulp game.
Does the number change for NPCs? Does the number changed if they are nameless minions and not named antagonists?
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Post by logan9a on Feb 21, 2017 18:32:50 GMT
On average how many shots/punches should an average person be able to take in a Gritty game? Same question for a Pulp game. Does the number change for NPCs? Does the number changed if they are nameless minions and not named antagonists? I don't know. Right now with gun damage, a single hit from a medium pistol can kill an average (10 hp) guy in one shot but by averages should take two. I'm fine with that. Not if all things are equal (NPC's have stats same as the PC's and don't get bonuses unless they are poz rated). No. Mooks are the same power as everyone else. For example, if I had a bunch of mooks (unskilled thugs) they might all get 30% to hit, d10 damage (nice case of medium pistols) and 10 HP each. If the PC's want to take on lots of them, direct combat would not serve them well. For me, I don't think the answer is 'gritty realism' or 'pulp' - a black and white answer - but somewhere in the messy gray. I'm beginning to think I'd like to try out the gun/melee/armor stuff as it is. If it doesn't work on a consistent and ongoing basis, we can go back and review it later.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Feb 28, 2017 20:18:45 GMT
There seems to be conflicting desires on armor and shields.
There seems to be no disagreement that in real life armor and shields are "OP" to anyone who would theoretically engage in combat to the death on a regular basis. (OP/Overpowered here meaning much more likely to win a fight or at least not die.) So a game looking for realism or verisimilitude should make armor/shields highly desirable via game mechanics.
The counterargument protests that hauling around armor and/or shield 24/7 is a YUGE pain in the ass though, so realistically, no one does it; therefore, we should make them crappy via game mechanics to reflect that no one does this and make them less desirable to the PCs.
The thing is, I don't intend to roleplay a stay at home dad, or a sous chef, or a secretary. I'm going to roleplay someone who is expecting to engage in combat to the death on a regular basis. Even if that would be rare for them at the start, they should very soon have every reason to expect it as it keeps coming up regularly as the game progresses. So they should have very valid in-character reasoning to take extraordinary steps to make themselves much more likely to win a fight or at least not die, even if it is a YUGE pain in the ass.
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Post by logan9a on Mar 1, 2017 1:49:22 GMT
Right - and your suggestion on shields would be what exactly?
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Mar 4, 2017 19:22:27 GMT
If I were shield tsar, I would have the base skill at 40. Then I would say you could parry/block with a buckler. Then with a real shield (anything larger than a buckler, because screw bucklers) you can also attack for 1d6 damage using the club, block incoming arrows, get +1 DR that stacks with your armor, and let you defend one extra time.
Example time:
Ivan has a kite shield and 80 shield block skill. With his 1 DR armor, he takes 2 less damage from attacks. He can potentially block up to 4 incoming melee and/or ranged attacks if he limits his actions to attacking with the shield and/or his mainhand weapon. His chances are 1st attack(full): 80%/2nd attack(full): 80%/3rd attack(half/-30): 50%/4th attack(quarter/-60): 20%/5th attack: ouch.
Hauling around a regular shield is still a pain in the ass, but will not normally be penalized outside of play immediately cards. Unless you go for a tower shield, maybe it gives you another +1 DR but the GM will torture your character mercilessly until you cry. You have been warned.
As per the IRL observation that weapon and shield usually beats just weapon, this should give a distinct advantage to using shield block/parry over weapon parrying in game without being over the top.
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Post by logan9a on Mar 4, 2017 20:46:21 GMT
So basically, +1 extra defense (making it better than parry with a sword) and +1 armor?
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Mar 4, 2017 21:54:16 GMT
So basically, +1 extra defense (making it better than parry with a sword) and +1 armor? Yes, that is the most important information and all you would usually need to know. Sorry for posting in the damage thread btw. This is where the balance of pulp vs grit and punching out people in armor discussion came up. I'll copy paste my thoughts over to the shield thread.
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Post by logan9a on Mar 4, 2017 22:12:52 GMT
Ah! I was just there and got confused. Yes. Let's please keep stuff in the correct threads. After more people take an interest in these boards, these threads will be combed through by lots of people.
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