PotatoJedi
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Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 16, 2018 21:22:53 GMT
I guess my confusion lies in how martial arts works mechanically. For example, I have martial arts in Unarmed and I also have the Unarmed skill. I'm assuming if I roll the unarmed skill alone, it's only d3 damage. But how do I factor in the martial arts skill? Do I roll that separately or do I roll it in place of the unarmed skill? If it's the latter, why would anyone take the Unarmed skill over Martial Arts (Unarmed)? Unless the Unarmed skill is a prerequisite before you can take MA Unarmed? Sorry if these are silly questions but I'd rather ask them here than in the middle of a game.
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Post by Fantômas on Oct 16, 2018 22:21:38 GMT
I guess my confusion lies in how martial arts works mechanically. For example, I have martial arts in Unarmed and I also have the Unarmed skill. I'm assuming if I roll the unarmed skill alone, it's only d3 damage. But how do I factor in the martial arts skill? Do I roll that separately or do I roll it in place of the unarmed skill? If it's the latter, why would anyone take the Unarmed skill over Martial Arts (Unarmed)? Unless the Unarmed skill is a prerequisite before you can take MA Unarmed? Sorry if these are silly questions but I'd rather ask them here than in the middle of a game. Unarmed is the general skill for attacking without a weapon, it can cover brawling, kicking, head butting etc. Martial Arts is a separate skill and you can actually have Martial arts for all different melee skills. eg you can have martial arts(Unarmed), martial Arts (sword), martial Arts(dagger) etc. In a combat situation you roll your normal skill and the relevant martial arts skill. eg Unarmed and Martial arts(unarmed). To actually connect, you need to succeed at the normal skill. eg if I failed my knife skill, however made my Martial Arts(knife) I would have missed with the attack. If you fumble at either of them, then it's a fumbled attack and draw from fumble deck. If you crit with either of them then it's a crit attack. Hopefully I have not confused you more.
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PotatoJedi
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Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 16, 2018 23:24:11 GMT
Nope! You answered it perfectly. Thanks for the explanation. Maybe I shouldn't have specialised in 2 separate martial arts knowing that now but whatever.
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PotatoJedi
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Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 17, 2018 0:57:00 GMT
Follow-up question (sorry if this is getting off topic – might be better to move these posts to a new thread?):
Is there ever a reason – besides being afraid of fumbling – not to roll Martial Arts alongside your basic melee attack? For example I'm thinking of training my Martial Arts Sword but I don't have any points in it yet. Can I use it at Learn and just roll Martial Arts Sword after every regular Sword skill? The way you described it sounds like the only reason you wouldn't want to do that is to avoid fumbling, otherwise there's no downside to failing a Martial Arts roll. Am I understanding this correctly?
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Post by Fantômas on Oct 17, 2018 2:14:23 GMT
Follow-up question (sorry if this is getting off topic – might be better to move these posts to a new thread?): Is there ever a reason – besides being afraid of fumbling – not to roll Martial Arts alongside your basic melee attack? For example I'm thinking of training my Martial Arts Sword but I don't have any points in it yet. Can I use it at Learn and just roll Martial Arts Sword after every regular Sword skill? The way you described it sounds like the only reason you wouldn't want to do that is to avoid fumbling, otherwise there's no downside to failing a Martial Arts roll. Am I understanding this correctly? (agree, better to have it's own thread, so have moved it) Pretty much it - fumbling. Lower the skill the greater range for fumbling. In a recent combat, with Martial Arts (knife) skill of 35, after the second or third fumble in that combat all on the martial Arts rolls, I stopped rolling for it. The roller really did not like me. Due to the nature of our chars, like with other skills you previously had no knowledge of, you can roll for it and if you succeed you suddenly gain the knowledge of that skill. So yes, just roll for MA (sword) at your learn. .... Maybe I shouldn't have specialised in 2 separate martial arts knowing that now but whatever. I'm assuming you put points into two different martial arts styles, eg Karate and Ju-jitsu. As that is not how they work, you should be able to convince logan to allow you to change them to how it's supposed to work. A lot of martial art styles have weapons as part of their training, so you may be able to change it to one of the weapons that is part of that martial art. eg change the first to Martial Arts(unarmed) and the second to Martial Arts (swords) assuming sword training are part of that MA style.
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Post by Fantômas on Oct 17, 2018 8:11:25 GMT
Just heard on a podcast what happens if you crit your attack skill and Martial arts skill - you get an additional raise in the damage track as well as double damage.
eg crit unarmed and crit Martial Arts (unarmed) . dam goes from d3 (base) => d4 (martial Arts)=> 2d4 (crit) => 2d6 (double crit). If you had a strength over 80 in this instance it would end up being 2d8 dam
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PotatoJedi
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Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 17, 2018 11:31:03 GMT
No I put mine into unarmed and knives. In hindsight it looks fine except I probably would have changed knives to swords. I've already used my free redo so that's how it's staying. I'll just work on Martial Arts Swords separately.
Thanks for explaining everything!
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Post by logan9a on Oct 17, 2018 12:09:33 GMT
Just heard on a podcast what happens if you crit your attack skill and Martial arts skill - you get an additional raise in the damage track as well as double damage. eg crit unarmed and crit Martial Arts (unarmed) . dam goes from d3 (base) => d4 (martial Arts)=> 2d4 (crit) => 2d6 (double crit). If you had a strength over 80 in this instance it would end up being 2d8 dam That may have been a playtest type thing. In the past, it was a shrug. With the damage track I can see a bump, we just have to figure out how to apply it. And how much we want it to affect. I do not want a straight up double again make someone go swish, but a single bump on the damage table would move a d8 to a d10. Don't think we'd move it from 2d4 to 2d6 as it is inconsistent with the damage table. Then again, so are crits. Fortunately, double critting doesn't happen often.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Oct 17, 2018 17:02:50 GMT
Martial Arts at learn is not advantageous, but yeah no reason you can't roll it until you get a check and then stop. heroiccthulhu.proboards.com/thread/4417/martial-arts-mathSuppose you have 15 Learn and are looking to bump your unarmed from d3 to d4: 15% = -.115 average damage (14% chance of +.5, 1% chance of +1.5, 10% chance of -2) I don't think this is correct. As far as I know, critical MA has always been "double the bonus damage". So in the old system, you got another d4, in this system I assumed it was a double bump, but I haven't rolled a crit on MA as of yet. He is parsing it odd, but not wrong. The stacking bumps go from d3->d4->d6->d8, those are all valid for unarmed damage. Wherever that lands you is where it is doubled though: 2d3->2d4->2d6->2d8.
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Post by logan9a on Oct 17, 2018 20:15:18 GMT
"If you crit with either of them then it's a crit attack.
I don't think this is correct."
It is as far as I've been doing it.
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Post by logan9a on Oct 18, 2018 0:45:00 GMT
I'm wondering if a double crit should just be x4 damage for ease.
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PotatoJedi
DORA
Alex. Apparently Freddy now.
Posts: 1,823
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Post by PotatoJedi on Oct 18, 2018 1:32:50 GMT
Since double crits are quite rare, I think just a straight up x4 is best. You get 4d4 instead of 2d6 which is more damage on average.
Normal unarmed = d3 Critical unarmed OR Missed Unarmed + Critical MA = 2d3 Critical unarmed + Normal MA = 2d4 Critical unarmed + Critical MA = 4d4
That makes sense to me.
It does potentially mean that you can do more damage with a lucky melee attack than with a heavy ranged weapon (that doesn't crit), but ranged weapons are more consistent plus you have the benefit of, well, being at range. I'd say give those who dare go into melee the ability to deal more damage. Melee combat is always more fun than standing behind a sandbag going pew pew pew.
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Post by logan9a on Oct 18, 2018 13:07:13 GMT
Normal unarmed = d3 Critical unarmed = 2d3
Normal unarmed + successful martial arts = d4 Critical unarmed + successful martial arts = 2d4 Critical unarmed + critical martial arts = 4d4
Fail unarmed + successful martial arts = miss Fail unarmed + critical martial arts = miss Fail unarmed + fumble martial arts = fumble
Successful unarmed + Fumble martial arts = fumble Fumble unarmed + fumble martial arts = fumble (and everyone has a good laugh)
Fumble unarmed + critical martial arts = fumble
Note it is possible to have martial arts with non-missile/projectile weapons only.
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Post by Fantômas on Oct 18, 2018 13:56:08 GMT
Note it is possible to have martial arts with non-missile/projectile weapons only. No gun fu/gun kata?
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Post by logan9a on Oct 18, 2018 14:23:14 GMT
Note it is possible to have martial arts with non-missile/projectile weapons only. No gun fu/gun kata? No - that would be the balance. Guns (esp double tap or full auto) will do more consistent damage.
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